Curse

krameriffic · Oct 09, 2006, 08:09 PM // 20:09

This is a combination of information dissymmetry and Darwinism. Sorry, but if you want a game devoid of all real world logic and reason, maybe you should look into Hello Kitty Island Adventure; or perhaps you could invent a time machine and go back to antebellum Georgia so you can exercise your "chivalry".

Trvth Jvstice · Oct 09, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

If two people agreeing to the price of the commendation and trading it for 100 or 150 gold is immoral, then all trading in the game is immoral since there is no defined prices (just guidelines) and we just sell at what we agree to.

The point is, the person is taking advantage of a new or newb player. This is the same as the people in pre-searing buying black and silver dyes from new players for 100 gold, just on a smaller scale.

It's "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Not- "Do unto others then run."

Trvth Jvstice · Oct 09, 2006, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by krameriffic

This is a combination of information dissymmetry and Darwinism. Sorry, but if you want a game devoid of all real world logic and reason, maybe you should look into Hello Kitty Island Adventure; or perhaps you could invent a time machine and go back to antebellum Georgia so you can exercise your "chivalry".

It's about being nice, when did being nice go out of style?

ChaoticCoyote · Oct 09, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks

I just wanted to see how many other people do not like to see obvious scamming take place.

It's not a scam.

If they were paying 10g per commendation, I might agree witht he scamming accusation -- but 150g is a reasonable price for something people received for "free" by doing quests. The fact that someone can turn 750g-worth of commendations into items worth 1k or more is a matter of understanding the game economy.

There exist better ways of making money; however, buying low and selling high is a long-standing foundation of modern commerce.

floppinghog · Oct 09, 2006, 08:34 PM // 20:34

lets stick the rock to the pole and remember the phrase: BUYER BEWARE. period

no one forces ppl to sell their little papers, and i spent a long time buying many of one the commendation verisons to trade for my ales. and a number of times people asked me what they were for first, i directed them to quartermasters, and some decided not to sell.

very simply put: its their freaking fault, who cares (and i wasnt lookin to "scam" anyone - i saved money indirectly, buy paying less than 250 for ale in my eyes)

Puddin Cheeks · Oct 09, 2006, 08:38 PM // 20:38

This is rather hiRarious to watch unfold.

"Better someone else lose 50gold than me", Stellar Logic there.

Yeah the amount of gold is cheap, but that is not the point.

Okay, I'm running down a crowded sidewalk with a knife and someone gets stabbed. "Oh, my it isn't my fault, they knew I had a knife."

Trakata · Oct 09, 2006, 08:43 PM // 20:43

This is not a scam.

A scam would be the ever-infamous "Pay me 10k and I'll tell you how to make 100k an hour" only to have the "secret" be to do the same to other people. That's a scam.

If I spammed, "WTB Drago's Flatbow 75k" and I got a PM from somebody wanting to sell to me, was I scammed? No. If I had spammed "WTS Drago's Flatbow 75k" and gotten a buyer, did I scam him? No. We agreed on a price.

For more concrete values, the same applies. If I spammed "WTB Commendations 500g each" and got PMs, I wasn't scammed. I chose to pay 500g each. If I said, "WTS Commendations 50g each" and got a buyer, did he scam me? No.

That said, buying low and selling high is common practice and not at all immoral. For a real world example, if I bought a motorcycle for $200 because the seller didn't know how to fix it up, and I proceeded to fix it up and sold it for $1000, did I scam either the buyer or the seller? Of course not, it's simple business mechanics.

TheUndertaker · Oct 09, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

First to the OP, your avatar is cool.

Other than that this thread is lame. You say you are out to help new players from losing their 50g. Okay, that's noble enough.

Let me put myself into the shoes of a new player. I have done some quests, I have let's say 7 commendations. Someone says they will buy them for 150g, that's 1050g for all. Now I realize, b/c even though I'm new I'm not a dullard, that there is obviously something they can get w/ my commendations that they can't get w/ 1050g. So I have 2 choices:

1. Sell em and get my 1050.
2. Spend time trying to figure out whatever it is they are trading for. If I choose to spend that time, I can then start wasting my time trying to "scam" others. That will be my reward for spending time trying to learn the so called scam, that could have been used playing the game.

I sell mine.

Kha · Oct 09, 2006, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

The point is, the person is taking advantage of a new or newb player. This is the same as the people in pre-searing buying black and silver dyes from new players for 100 gold, just on a smaller scale.

It's "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Not- "Do unto others then run."

No, it is not the same. Not even close. The thing with dye in pre-searing is that it's the game's fault that there is no true way for new players to determine the worth of the dye other than going by other players' word. They can't see its value at the dye trader because there is no trader, so they can only go by how much a merchant is going to buy it.

With Imperial Commendations and what not, you can easily find out how much it is worth by seeing what you can get with the items from the guardsmen. If people are too lazy to figure out this price on their own (which is really not that hard to do), then they are not getting scammed but rather just letting other players dictate how much they should sell things for.

And in both cases one can research this stuff on fansite forums and websites. Not everyone may know of this way, but it really doesn't take a genius to figure out that there would be websites discussing game information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks

This is rather hiRarious to watch unfold...

Okay, I'm running down a crowded sidewalk with a knife and someone gets stabbed. "Oh, my it isn't my fault, they knew I had a knife."

What is hilarious is how sad of an attempt you have made to defend your point. Obviously you care more about the attention you got from making this post and insulting others than actually trying to protect innocent players from getting scammed.

Relnor · Oct 09, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakata

This is not a scam.

A scam would be the ever-infamous "Pay me 10k and I'll tell you how to make 100k an hour" only to have the "secret" be to do the same to other people. That's a scam.

If I spammed, "WTB Drago's Flatbow 75k" and I got a PM from somebody wanting to sell to me, was I scammed? No. If I had spammed "WTS Drago's Flatbow 75k" and gotten a buyer, did I scam him? No. We agreed on a price.

For more concrete values, the same applies. If I spammed "WTB Commendations 500g each" and got PMs, I wasn't scammed. I chose to pay 500g each. If I said, "WTS Commendations 50g each" and got a buyer, did he scam me? No.

That said, buying low and selling high is common practice and not at all immoral. For a real world example, if I bought a motorcycle for $200 because the seller didn't know how to fix it up, and I proceeded to fix it up and sold it for $1000, did I scam either the buyer or the seller? Of course not, it's simple business mechanics.

Winner.

Zehnchu · Oct 09, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Simply put it’s not a scam.

There are a few items that can be traded for commendations that have any value. 5 Commendation can get you 1 platinum and that’s from selling the superior salvage kit back to a merchant. I am not sure about elite mission keys for the sell back value to merchant same with the rare scrolls. Since there is a huge supply of commendations they have very little market value.

In the end it’s up to each player to determine if it has any real value to them and it’s their own choice to sell them or not.

swimnserve88 · Oct 09, 2006, 09:12 PM // 21:12

From what I can tell, this stems from ANet's lack of foresight to place correct monetary values on items that are exchanged for other items of equal (and many times lesser) value. Ever heard of Troll Tusks?

I buy Monastery Credits for 75-100g each, then exchange them for ale, which I then take to Droks, proceed to get drunk for an hour straight, and spam WTB Troll Tusks, and chances are, I barely break even, not to mention I still need to run the tusks to the trader. Now, if I were a 55er or W/Mo that had just been out farming, and I see a person wanting to buy my tusks, I have 2 options:

1) Sell em then and there, and get back to farming for more tusks faster

or

2) Hold onto them, and then spend the time later to run to the trader and exchange them and so on and so forth

Now, it comes down to convenience. Do you want to spend more time making more money, or less time making less money? Whether or not one is faster than the other is not something I want to test out, if it can even be done considering the variables involved.

Now, onto the Commendations. Sure, a good majority of people know how much commendations are worth, and some do not. However, there is more behind the person spamming WTB Commendations 150g etc.

1) How many people have actually sold to him? I have been in districts for 10 minutes at a time and have had no replies to buying and selling Black Dye, doesn't mean I have gotten or sold a dye for each time I spammed.

2) How many people just want the cash right on the spot? Honestly, I have merched greens a few times, simply because it isn't worth my time to sit around and try and get that 1k for Shreader's Talons, or some other less-sought after greens. And let's not mention the ever popular Shing Jea greens, those are always a joy to see dropped...

3) How many people do not know any better, but see that they are getting 150g from an item that merches for much less? In the end, it is their choice to sell those things, not the buyers' choice. It is always the seller's choice for the most part, and if the buyer makes clear that he has a firm price in mind, then it falls onto the seller, does he want the cash now or will he hold out for more?

Basic economics is at play: Buy/sell now at price X or buy/sell later at price Y, but the thing is, over time, which is more effective, buying/selling X and then continuing with anything else you had to do, ie make money, armor, quest, dyes, etc, or holding out for price Y and sitting on your cash/item for the perfect moment, which may take minutes, hours, weeks, etc. How do you want to spend your time to make the most of it?

During the Dragon Fest, there was a mda rush to get orbs during the opening hours of the event, before the quests. Turns out, people were buying orbs at ridiculous amounts of money. Now, ANet makes a few quests the next day that give out 240 orbs. How do the mad rush buyers feel now?

I can tell you that I made a good amount of cash by buying orbs at a low price and then selling them later for a higher price. Took a butt-load of time and effort on my part, but it worked. I didn't want a mask, nor did I feel like I was cheating people, because I was able to get orbs from willing sellers and sell to willing buyers. In the end, everyone won, because they wouldn't have made those choices at the time had they not wanted to. Sure, looking back, it seems like it may have been considered a possible scam, but then hindsight is 20/20, and orbs are worthless now. So it comes back to what do you want form the time you spend making/spending cash in game.

And there is a whole other can of worms to open about the Ranik sellers in Pre-Searing, talk about people being lazy....

My opinion: let people buy and/or sell at the prices they want, it will fall to the other people in the district to decide how they want to respond to the text that flies ever so rapidly during peak selling hours. And it also depends on whether the seller is determined enough to sit through any flak or lulls in trading that he may experience.

Livingston · Oct 09, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trakata

This is not a scam.

A scam would be the ever-infamous "Pay me 10k and I'll tell you how to make 100k an hour" only to have the "secret" be to do the same to other people. That's a scam.

Actually I'm not sure I would call that a scam either, that is if the person proclaiming it actually did make that much. I seriously doubt someone could be so sly to get that to work often enough to say that you can make 100k "an" hour, which would suggest a constant flow of cash as long as you execute "the secret," but if they said how to make 100k "in" an hour, that would be different. Once again assuming said person had actually done so before. In which case if he has, then there is no scam as it can indeed work.

Livingston

Trakata · Oct 09, 2006, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livingston

Actually I'm not sure I would call that a scam either, that is if the person proclaiming it actually did make that much. I seriously doubt someone could be so sly to get that to work often enough to say that you can make 100k "an" hour, which would suggest a constant flow of cash as long as you execute "the secret," but if they said how to make 100k "in" an hour, that would be different. Once again assuming said person had actually done so before. In which case if he has, then there is no scam as it can indeed work.

Livingston

Alright, I see your logic. To rephrase, then, is another popular variant. "Pay me 10k and I'll tell you my secret farming spot where <insert rare valuable item here> can be found all the time" and then either no information is given, or false information (like if the person said "Ogres in Pre-Searing") is given. I think that would qualify as a scam under your logic, wouldn't it?

MMSDome · Oct 09, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

theres nothing wrong with that because the other person is getting more money out of it then you are. I used to buy these to buy ale and get drunk.

Gros Albert · Oct 09, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I don't think it's a scam at all...
it's a way of making money....
if someone is buying perfect gold weapons all day long and then he sell them at an higher price...it's not scamming...it's a way to make money

and if your tired of them....just off you trade and local chat...simple as that

Indian · Oct 09, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks

This is rather hiRarious to watch unfold.

"Better someone else lose 50gold than me", Stellar Logic there.

Yeah the amount of gold is cheap, but that is not the point.

Okay, I'm running down a crowded sidewalk with a knife and someone gets stabbed. "Oh, my it isn't my fault, they knew I had a knife."

see you are comparing with real world now. and eariler these are your own quotes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks

It is funny that everyone keeps comparing the game to the "real" world.

see, to explain some things, you have to compare to real world. cuz in someway we are playing in virtual world.

Learn.Learn.Learn. thats all you can do. and please OPEN your eyes

Kais Unduli · Oct 09, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddin Cheeks

I never tried to say that, but apparently the only way to play the game is to be a complete A**hole.

I believed you've pointed your thoughts directly at yourself.

TEX Cougar · Oct 09, 2006, 11:05 PM // 23:05

I'm currently one of the people 'spamming' the 'Buying ~ALL~ Monastery Credits - 100g each!'
Why? Simple, buying credits for 100g helps me get drunkard title for half the price!
If people ever ask "what are the credits used for?" I explain fully what you can do with them, and ive even helped a few with missions and quests to help them get more credits and xp because they asked.
As for the scamming? Theres no scamming going on here at all!

Puddin cheeks, you wrote "Okay, I'm running down a crowded sidewalk with a knife and someone gets stabbed. "Oh, my it isn't my fault, they knew I had a knife."
Ok this is a little absurd, to simplify, the victim didnt have a button to click on to 'accept' the stabbing..

Hollerith · Oct 09, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

People who buy troll tusks at 20g ea. scam as well.

I'm just kidding, I think this is silly. When I first started out, I needed plant fibers to craft some armor at Ascalon. I WTB'd, and talked the seller down to an attractive 150g per fiber. It's not his fault he didn't know the value of plant fibers, and I gave him what I thought was a fair price.

I gave up being protective of everyone back when I played Diablo1 on BNet for a couple months. Let them learn.